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What's the number one thing that keeps people broke?
让人们一直贫穷的第一件事是什么？
>> It's ignorance. It's not a lack of intelligence. It's ignorance.
>> 是无知。不是缺乏智力。是无知。
>> Today, you are getting the best financial advice you'll ever hear from the man that changed the way that I think about money. The way that I make
>> 今天，你将从改变我对金钱思考方式的人那里得到你听过的最好的理财建议。我赚钱的
money. You're going to love this. 10 million copies sold. Unpacking the five biggest takeaways. Let's go.
方式。你会喜欢这个的。售出1000万册。解析五个最大的要点。让我们开始吧。
>> He's the author of the psychology of money.
>> 他是《金钱心理学》的作者。
>> Psychology of money.
>> 金钱心理学。
>> Psychology of money.
>> 金钱心理学。
>> Psychology of money. Like we live in a society that it's very easy to overspend. A lot of people are willing to give you credit cards, give you debt.
>> 金钱心理学。就像我们生活在一个很容易过度消费的社会。很多人愿意给你信用卡，给你债务。
Is very easy to have bad financial habits.
很容易有糟糕的财务习惯。
>> Instagram has basically become the new, you know, QVC.
>> Instagram基本上已经成为新的，你知道，QVC。
>> If you're buying these things, particularly on credit, you have bad habits. You're getting yourself into debt. You know, every dollar of debt that you have is a piece of your future
>> 如果你买这些东西，特别是用信用卡，你有坏习惯。你让自己陷入债务。你知道，你拥有的每一美元债务都是你未来的一部分
that somebody else owns. You can be one of the richest men in the world and have no independence.
，被别人拥有。你可以成为世界上最富有的人之一，但没有独立性。
Morgan, what do you recommend we do every time we get a paycheck or get paid?
Morgan，你建议我们每次拿到薪水或得到报酬时做什么？
>> I view savings as an expense just as I would view rent or food or whatnot.
>> 我把储蓄看作一项支出，就像我看房租或食物或其他什么一样。
Anytime in finance that you can automate it. So, automating your bank and say every paycheck you're going to move $50 to savings, whatever it might be, and
在理财中，任何时候你都可以自动化它。所以，自动化你的银行，说每次薪水你要转50美元到储蓄，无论它可能是什么，然后
making it automatic. What are the odds that at least one of these happens to you over the course of your life? Job loss, divorce, medical illness, weward
让它自动。这些中至少有一个在你一生中发生在你身上的几率是多少？失业、离婚、疾病、
children, living through a giant recession, whatever it might be. What are the odds that at least one of those will happen to you? And the answer is
孩子，经历巨大的经济衰退，无论它可能是什么。这些中至少有一个会发生在你身上的几率是多少？答案是
100%. And we I think a lot of people don't want to admit that. And when that happens, the savings that you have is going to be more valuable than anything
100%。我认为很多人不想承认这一点。当那发生时，你拥有的储蓄将比任何东西都更有价值
that you've that you've ever had.
，你曾经拥有过的任何东西。
>> And for the person who's still thinking, I mean, what's the point? I can barely pay my bills. What do you want them to know?
>> 对于仍在思考的人，我的意思是，有什么意义？我几乎付不起账单。你想让他们知道什么？
>> The first thing I want you to know is I feel you. I empathize with you. I don't judge you. But the second thing you
>> 我想让你知道的第一件事是我理解你。我同情你。我不评判你。但第二件事你
should know is that it is >> Hey, it's your friend Mel and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast.
应该知道的是，它是 >> 嘿，我是你的朋友Mel，欢迎来到Mel Robbins播客。
Hey, it's Mel. My team was showing me that 57% of you who watch here on YouTube are not subscribed yet. Could you do me a quick favor? Hit subscribe.
嘿，我是Mel。我的团队向我展示，在YouTube上观看的你们中有57%还没有订阅。你能帮我一个忙吗？点击订阅。
It's free and that way you don't miss any of the episodes that I post here on YouTube. It also lets me know that you're enjoying the guests and you love
这是免费的，这样你就不会错过我在YouTube上发布的任何剧集。它也让我知道你在享受嘉宾，你爱
the content that I'm bringing you because I want to make sure you don't miss anything. So, thank you. Thank you.
我带给你的内容，因为我想确保你不会错过任何东西。所以，谢谢。谢谢。
Thank you for hitting subscribe. All right, you ready? I bet you are. So, let's dive in. Morgan Hustle, welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast.
谢谢你点击订阅。好吧，你准备好了吗？我打赌你准备好了。所以，让我们开始吧。Morgan Hustle，欢迎来到Mel Robbins播客。
>> Thanks for having me, Mel. Happy to be here.
>> 谢谢你邀请我，Mel。很高兴来到这里。
>> I am so glad you're here. Thank you for jumping on a plane. I am a huge fan. I got to give a shout out to my husband,
>> 我很高兴你在这里。谢谢你跳上飞机。我是你的超级粉丝。我必须向我的丈夫致敬，
Christopher Robbins, because he was the one who first introduced me to your work, The Psychology of Money, Changed My Life. I am so excited for your new
Christopher Robbins，因为他是第一个向我介绍你作品的人，《金钱心理学》，改变了我的生活。我对你的新
blockbuster, The Art of Spending Money.
大片《花钱的艺术》非常兴奋。
And we're going to get into all the takeaways from your mega bestsellers, but I wanted to start by asking you, Morgan, if you could speak directly to
我们要深入了解你超级畅销书的所有要点，但我想先问你，Morgan，如果你能直接对
the person who is here spending time together with us right now and share with them what could be different about their life or the life of somebody that
现在在这里和我们一起度过时间的人说话，与他们分享他们的生活或他们关心的人的生活可能会有什么不同，他们与那个人分享这一集，如果他们把你即将与我们分享和今天教我们的所有东西都放在心上，并应用到他们的
they care about that they share this episode with if they take everything to heart that you're about to share with us and teach us today and apply it to their
生活中。我认为这将是，你感到富有、感到富裕、财务独立的能力完全在你的控制之中。它不
life. I think it would be that your ability to feel wealthy, to feel rich, to be financially independent is absolutely in your control. It doesn't
管你是谁，你来自哪里，你赚多少钱，你的工作是什么，你都能做到。我认为我们几代人都告诉自己，为了
matter who you are, where you're from, how much money you make, what your job is, you can do it. And we I think we've told ourselves for generations that in
变得富有，你必须拥有正确的教育背景。你必须拥有正确的职业。你必须来自正确的家庭。我
order to become rich, you have to have the right educational background. You have to have the right career. You have to come from the right family. And I
不认为这是真的。这不是关于你有多聪明。这是关于你如何思考金钱。这是关于你如何行为。行为在
don't think it's it's true. It's not about how smart you are. It's about how you think about money. It's about how you behave. and behavior is in
>> 我不知道为什么我相信你，但我相信。就像我真的，无论你负债多少，无论你多大，你都能学习。
>> I don't know why I believe you, but I do. Like I literally no matter how in debt you are, no matter how old you are, you can learn. And
这是我将要谈论的大教训之一，我从你的作品中提炼出来的，它改变了我的生活和我的关系
that's kind of one of the big lessons I'm going to talk about that I've distilled from your work that has changed my life and my relationship with
与金钱，以及我思考金钱的方式，我储蓄它的方式，我花费它的方式。
money and the way I think about money, the way I save it, the way I spend it.
起点完全无关紧要。我从你那里学到的第一课是，你可以在金钱方面变得好。
It doesn't matter the starting point at all. Lesson number one that I've learned from you is you can get good with money.
>> 我一次又一次地看到它。有很多例子。让我给你这个例子。一个普通人没有良好的教育。
>> I've seen it time and time again. And there are so many examples of it. Let me give you this example here. An ordinary person doesn't have a good education.
也许他们甚至没有高中毕业，比如说，但他们有良好的财务行为。他们可以长期思考。他们可以控制他们的期望。他们有耐心。他们有
Maybe they didn't even graduate high school, let's say, but they have good financial behavior. They can think long term. They can keep their expectations in check. They're patient. They have
那些行为品质。那个人可以做得很好。但去哈佛并获得MBA并在华尔街工作的人拥有最好的
those behavioral qualities. That person can do very well. But the person who went to Harvard and got an MBA and went to work on Wall Street has the best
教育、最好的关系、最好的经验，那个人很容易破产。他们确实，这并不罕见，这在
education, the best connections, the best experience, that person can easily go broke. and they do not uncommon for that to happen and that is not true in
其他领域是不真实的。不可能想到一个没有上高中、没有上大学的普通人，比哈佛训练的医生更好地进行心脏手术
other fields. It is impossible to think of an ordinary person who didn't go to high school, didn't go to college performing open heart surgery better
。那是不可能的。那永远不会发生。但这确实发生在金钱上，因为它不是关于你知道什么。你不需要
than a Harvard trained doctor. That's impossible. That will never happen. But it does happen with money because it's not about what you know. You don't need
知道秘密公式。你不需要有秘密关系。如果你只是让你的行为正确，你的思维正确，你就能做好。
to know the secret formulas. You don't need to have secret connections. If you just get your behavior right and your thinking right, you can do well.
耐心，控制你的期望，不把自己与他人比较，用金钱作为工具来生活得更好，而不是作为标尺来
patience, keeping your expectations in check, not comparing yourself to other people, using money as a tool to live a better life instead of a yard stick to
通过它来衡量自己与他人。这是非常简单的东西，它都在你的头脑中，我认为它是人们需要知道如何在金钱方面做好的99%
measure yourself against others by it's very simple stuff and it's all in your head and it's I think it's it's 99% of what people need to know to do well with
在你的控制之中。嗯，我认为我犯的一个错误，很长一段时间，特别是我遇到你的作品之前，是我相信
money is in your control. Well, I think one of the mistakes that I made for a very long time, particularly before I bumped into your work, is I believed
有一些秘密公式，有一些富人的私人俱乐部，这是关于你认识谁，你去了哪所学校。我
that there was some secret formula, that there was some private club for rich people, that it was about who you know, where you went to school. And what I
喜欢你的作品的是，你基本上说，“不，不，不，不。你专注于错误的东西。有我们可以学习的实际行为，
love about your work is that you basically say, "No, no, no, no. You're focusing on the wrong stuff. There are actual behaviors that we can learn that
将帮助你在金钱方面变得好。” >> 正是。它们也不是那么困难。它们在你的控制之中。不是说它们容易，但
will help you get good with money." >> Exactly. And they're not that difficult either. They're in your control. It's not to say that they're easy, but
它们很简单。所以只是几个行为。如果你有能力专注于内部，专注于你自己的目标，而不是不断比较
they're simple. And so just just a couple of the behaviors. If you have an ability to focus internally on your own goals rather than constantly comparing
自己与他人，如果你能储蓄一点你的钱，生活甚至稍微低于你的能力，投资那笔钱并保持耐心。只是那些事情，
yourself against others, if you can save a little bit of your money, live even slightly below your means, invest that money and be patient. Just those things,
只是那些非常，这是我刚给你的幼儿园主题清单。
just those very that's a kindergarten list of topics that I just gave you.
那不是一堆希腊公式。
That's not a bunch of Greek formulas.
那不是一堆华尔街胡言乱语。那不是一堆首字母缩略词。
It's not a bunch of Wall Street gibberish. It's not a bunch of acronyms.
这些是非常简单的东西，就是这样。这部分也是重新定义我所说的财务成功是什么意思。
These are very simple things and that's it. Part of this too is redefining what what I mean by financially successful.
我不是在谈论私人岛屿和私人飞机。但对大多数人来说，如果你说，“你最终的财务目标是什么？”他们实际想要的
I'm not talking private islands and private jets. But for most people, what they actually want if you said, "What is your ultimate financial goal?" They
是，他们会说，“我想为自己和家人拥有稳定的住房。我想有一点缓冲，如果我被解雇或
would say, "I want to have a stable housing for myself and my family. I want to have a little bit of cushion to fall back onto if I were to get laid off or
有医疗紧急情况，我可以依靠。我想有一天能够有尊严地退休。我想能够和我的孩子们共度时光。这些是非常好的
have a medical emergency. I want to be able to have a dignified retirement someday. I want to be able to spend time with my kids. Those are very good
财务目标。我认为，那种水平的财富和成功，在每个人的控制之内。
financial goals. And that level of wealth and success, I think, is in within everybody's control.
>> 嗯，你说你想教我们如何使用金钱作为工具。
>> Well, you said you wanted to teach us how to use money as a tool.
>> 来生活得更好，而不是用它作为标尺 >> 通过它来衡量自己与他人。
>> To live a better life versus using it as a yard stick >> to measure yourself against others by.
>> 正确。这是你要教我们如何做的核心事情之一，以及为什么这在今天如此重要。
>> Correct. And that's one of the core things you're going to teach us how to do and why this is so important today.
>> 当然。说起来容易做起来难。对每个人来说，把自己与他人比较是如此自然。对我来说，通过不说
>> Of course. And it's easier said than done. It is so natural for everybody to compare yourself against others. For me to measure my level of success by not
我拥有什么，而是通过说我相对于那个人拥有什么来衡量我的成功水平。不是不是不是我的
saying what do I have but but by saying what do I have relative to that guy. Not how not how not how comfortable is my
房子有多舒适，而是通过说我的房子相对于那边的那个人、我的邻居、我的同事、我的兄弟姐妹有多大。
house but by saying how big is my house relative to that person over there to my neighbor to my co-orker to my siblings.
使今天比以往任何时候都更困难的问题之一是，过去对我父母那一代、我祖父母那一代来说，
And one of the problems that makes it more difficult today than it's ever been is that it used to be for my parents' generation, my grandparents generation,
当他们把自己与他人比较时，这是相对于他们的邻居或他们的同事，这是一个相当小的人群。也许几个
when they compared themselves to other people, it was relative to their neighbors or their co-workers, it was a pretty small group of people. Maybe a
你在电视上看到或在广播中听到的人。但现在今天，只是每个人，包括我自己，他们的比较群体是
couple people who you saw on TV or heard about on the radio. But now today, just everybody, including myself, their comparison group is the most
Instagram或Tik Tok上最复杂的算法。所以无论你做得有多好，无论你的房子有多好，无论你赚多少钱
sophisticated algorithm on Instagram or Tik Tok. And so no matter how well you're doing, no matter how great your house is, no matter how much money
，你像其他人一样每天打开Instagram 100次，你打开它，那里有某个人看起来更好、更快乐、更
you're making, you turn on Instagram a 100 times a day like everybody else, you open it up and there is somebody out there who looks better, happier, more
成功、比你更美丽。
successful, more beautiful than you are.
所以这个主题，我认为，一直是真实的。它一直很重要。
And so this topic, I think, has always been true. It's always been important.
它今天比以往任何时候都更重要。控制你的期望的想法，因为今天比以往任何时候都更容易让
It is more important today than it's ever been. the idea of keeping your expectations in check because it's easier today than it's ever been to let
你的期望只是失控地螺旋上升。我在我自己的孩子身上看到这个。我九岁的儿子，他的，当我长大时，普通人开旧的
your expectations just spiral out of control. I see this with my own kids. My nine-year-old son, his when I was growing up, normal people drove old
皮卡车，富人开新的皮卡车。那就像我头脑中的定义。就像如果你有一辆新皮卡车，就像，哦，
pickup trucks and rich people drove new pickup trucks. That was that was like the definition in my head. Like if you had a new pickup truck, like, oh,
有一个富人。我九岁的儿子，他对富有的定义就像私人飞机和私人岛屿，因为他看Mr. Beast，就像，哦，
there's a rich person. My son who's nine, his definition of rich is like a private jet in a private island because he watches Mr. Beast and it's like, oh,
坐在圈子里，你会赢一百万美元那种。这是一个完全不同的期望水平，甚至比我20或30年前有的还要高。所以
sit in the circle and you'll win a million bucks kind of. It's a completely different level of expectations than even I had 20 or 30 years ago. And so
它是 >> 你将遇到的最困难的事情是，即使你是地球上最有说服力的金融专家之一，你的孩子也不会听你的，
it's >> and the hardest thing you're gonna have is that even though you're one of the most compelling financial experts on the planet, your kids won't listen to you,
>> 不，当然不会。
>> No, of course not.
>> 当然不会。不。我认为这是一个非常重要的起点，因为你已经说了这么多要点，其中一个是发展一套技能
>> Of course not. No. I think that's really important place to start because you have already dropped so many takeaways and one of them was developing a skill set of
向内看，寻找什么重要，而不是向外看Mr. Beast或社交算法上的什么，或你的邻居开什么车作为那个标尺。但你确实
looking inside yourself for what matters rather than looking outside yourself at Mr. Beast or what's on the social algorithm or what your neighbor is driving for that yard stick. But you did
提到了你落后的感觉。
mention this sense that you're falling behind.
>> 是的。今天特别是很多人感到他们落后了。我的意思是，我有一个26岁和一个24岁的孩子，他们
>> Yeah. And so many people today in particular are feeling like they're falling behind. I mean, I have we have a 26-year-old and a 24 year old and they
已经感到，好吧，我赚的钱不够，我怎么才能买房子，我怎么才能支付生活？如果听的人
are already feeling as though, okay, I'm not making enough money and how am I ever going to buy a house and how am I going to pay for a life? If the person
有那种他们落后的感觉，特别是如果你年纪较大，你说太晚了，就像我已经搞砸了，Morgan。什么
listening has that sense that they're falling behind, particularly if you're older and you say it's too late, like I've already blown it, Morgan. What do
你想让他们现在听到？我认为有几件事。一个是同理心，因为生活中有一些领域，特别是很多人在他们的
you want them to hear right now? I think there's a couple things. One is empathy because there are areas in life where particularly a lot of people in their
20多岁、30多岁和40多岁时，相对于前几代人落后了，特别是像房屋所有权这样的事情，在前几代人中比现在更容易实现
20s, 30s, and 40s are falling behind relative to previous generations, particularly something like home ownership where it was more attainable in previous generations than it is has
，特别是在过去几年。所以同理心，这不是我说，“哦，你应该只是感觉更好。你应该只是更感激
been particularly in the last couple of years. So empathy, this is not me saying, "Oh, you should just feel better. You should just be more grateful
你拥有的。你你实际上做得很好。”这里必须有一些同理心。还有对于那些认为他们能够
for what you have. You you actually are doing fine." There is some empathy that has to be involved here. And also for people that thought they were going to
在某个年龄退休，然后生活成本上涨了这么多，或者医疗账单在某个
be able to retire at a certain age and then the cost of living has gone up so much or medical bills are at a certain
状态，你意识到天哪，我没有足够的钱 >> 能够退休，所以基本上重要的是，这些是非常
state that you're realizing oh my god I don't have enough money right >> to be able to retire and so it is important to basically go these are very
真实的感觉，人们现在有的，所以如果我们从同理心开始，我们下一步去哪里，Morgan？嗯，我认为你从同理心开始，因为如果有人
real feelings that people have right now and so if we start with empathy where do we go next Morgan? Well, I think you start with empathy because if somebody
感到他们落后了，那是他们的真相。但我认为，同样重要的是要意识到，所有幸福只是期望和现实之间的差距。
feels like they're falling behind, that's their truth. But I think it's it's important to realize, too, that all happiness is just the gap between expectations and reality.
>> 好吧，再说一遍。所有幸福 >> 所有幸福是期望和现实之间的差距。你有你正在过的生活。你有你
>> All right, say that again. All happiness >> all happiness is the gap between expectations and reality. You have the life you're living. You have the life
期望过的生活。在两者之间是是是你可以找到某种程度的幸福的地方。那个差距越宽，你会感到越痛苦。
you expect to live. In between there is is is where you can find some level of happiness. And the wider that gap is, the more miserable you're going to feel.
>> 好吧。所以，让我们谈谈某个处于这种情况的人，他们认为他们的储蓄会进一步，他们开始恐慌
>> Okay. So, let's talk about somebody who is in a situation where they thought they would be further along with their savings and they're starting to panic
因为他们担心他们的钱会在他们死前用完，或者他们将无法退休。
because they're worried that their money is going to run out before they die or they're not going to be able to retire.
如果那是现实，你现在如何使用那个幸福定义？
How do you use that happiness definition right now if that's the reality?
>> 这对每个人都不真实。这不是黑白分明的，但有很多这些情况，我会说大多数
>> This is not true for everybody. This is not black and white, but there are a lot of these cases, I would say the majority
这些情况，那个人无法储蓄他们想的那么多的原因是，他们多年来可能
of these cases where the reason that person has not been able to save as much as they thought is because their expectations for many years probably
一直失控地螺旋上升，他们花的钱比他们应该花的更多，因为他们试图追逐他们想成为的人
have been spiraling out of control and they were spending more money than they should have been because they were trying to chase who they wanted to be
即使那不一定他们能负担得起的生活方式水平。所以他们租了一个非常漂亮的公寓，因为他们有一个
even if it wasn't necessarily the level of lifestyle that they could afford. And so they were renting an apartment that was very nice because they had an
期望，那是他们应该在的地方，他们把自己与他人比较，即使那有点超出他们的预算。他们
expectation that that's where they should be and they were comparing themselves to other people even if it was kind of out of their budget. They
以某种方式旅行、穿衣和外出就餐，因为那是他们觉得他们应该成为的人，即使他们不一定能负担得起。
were traveling and dressing and eating out in a way because that's who they felt that they should be even if they couldn't necessarily afford it.
>> Morgan，你在这里点名我们。
>> Morgan, you're calling us out here.
>> 我在点名每个人。是的。我也曾经处于这种情况。
>> I'm calling everybody out. Yes. I've I've been in this situation, too.
这没有什么可耻的。这是我认为每个人都会经历的非常常见的事情。我认为我为什么对这个话题感兴趣，我写的每一本书
There's no shame in it. This is a very common thing that I think everyone will experience. And I think a lot of why I got interested in this topic, every book
都从照镜子开始，就像，我什么时候嫉妒过？我的期望什么时候失控了？没有
that I've written started with looking in the mirror and being like, when have I been envious? When have my expectations spiraled out of control? No
人对这是免疫的。所以没有什么可没有什么可耻的。
one is immune to this. So there's nothing to be there's nothing to be ashamed of.
>> 所以有一点，因为你知道，只是完全披露，我带着10,000美元的信用卡债务进入我的婚姻，我丈夫不知道
>> So there's a little bit of cuz cuz you know, just in full disclosure, I entered my marriage with $10,000 of credit card debt that my husband did not know about
然后继续对他隐瞒。
and then proceeded to hide it from him.
但事实是，我只是拿着我的信用卡走进商店，用我没有的钱买了我不需要的东西。
But the truth is, I just walked my credit card into stores and bought stuff I didn't need with money I didn't have.
>> 然后即使我看我丈夫和我在我41岁时发生的事情，他的餐厅正在倒闭
>> And then even if I look at what happened to my husband and I when I was 41 years old and his restaurants were going under
，带着我们的房子和我们整个一生的储蓄，事实是我们确实花了很多我们没有的钱。我们确实积累了那笔债务。我记得
and taking our house and our entire life savings with it, the truth is we did spend a lot of money we didn't have. We did rack up that debt. And I remember
几年后，当我们开始爬出来时，当我能够对自己说，我对这个混乱负责。我可以看到
several years later as we were starting to climb our way out, there was a level of relief when I could say to myself both, I'm responsible for this mess. I can see
几年后，当我们开始爬出来时，当我能够对自己说，我对这个烂摊子负责时，有一种解脱感。我可以看到
点击句子跳转到对应位置
What's the number one thing that keeps people broke?
让人们一直贫穷的第一件事是什么？
>> It's ignorance. It's not a lack of intelligence. It's ignorance.
>> 是无知。不是缺乏智力。是无知。
>> Today, you are getting the best financial advice you'll ever hear from the man that changed the way that I think about money. The way that I make
>> 今天，你将从改变我对金钱思考方式的人那里得到你听过的最好的理财建议。我赚钱的
money. You're going to love this. 10 million copies sold. Unpacking the five biggest takeaways. Let's go.
方式。你会喜欢这个的。售出1000万册。解析五个最大的要点。让我们开始吧。
>> He's the author of the psychology of money.
>> 他是《金钱心理学》的作者。
>> Psychology of money.
>> 金钱心理学。
>> Psychology of money.
>> 金钱心理学。
>> Psychology of money. Like we live in a society that it's very easy to overspend. A lot of people are willing to give you credit cards, give you debt.
>> 金钱心理学。就像我们生活在一个很容易过度消费的社会。很多人愿意给你信用卡，给你债务。
Is very easy to have bad financial habits.
很容易有糟糕的财务习惯。
>> Instagram has basically become the new, you know, QVC.
>> Instagram基本上已经成为新的，你知道，QVC。
>> If you're buying these things, particularly on credit, you have bad habits. You're getting yourself into debt. You know, every dollar of debt that you have is a piece of your future
>> 如果你买这些东西，特别是用信用卡，你有坏习惯。你让自己陷入债务。你知道，你拥有的每一美元债务都是你未来的一部分
that somebody else owns. You can be one of the richest men in the world and have no independence.
，被别人拥有。你可以成为世界上最富有的人之一，但没有独立性。
Morgan, what do you recommend we do every time we get a paycheck or get paid?
Morgan，你建议我们每次拿到薪水或得到报酬时做什么？
>> I view savings as an expense just as I would view rent or food or whatnot.
>> 我把储蓄看作一项支出，就像我看房租或食物或其他什么一样。
Anytime in finance that you can automate it. So, automating your bank and say every paycheck you're going to move $50 to savings, whatever it might be, and
在理财中，任何时候你都可以自动化它。所以，自动化你的银行，说每次薪水你要转50美元到储蓄，无论它可能是什么，然后
making it automatic. What are the odds that at least one of these happens to you over the course of your life? Job loss, divorce, medical illness, weward
让它自动。这些中至少有一个在你一生中发生在你身上的几率是多少？失业、离婚、疾病、
children, living through a giant recession, whatever it might be. What are the odds that at least one of those will happen to you? And the answer is
孩子，经历巨大的经济衰退，无论它可能是什么。这些中至少有一个会发生在你身上的几率是多少？答案是
100%. And we I think a lot of people don't want to admit that. And when that happens, the savings that you have is going to be more valuable than anything
100%。我认为很多人不想承认这一点。当那发生时，你拥有的储蓄将比任何东西都更有价值
that you've that you've ever had.
，你曾经拥有过的任何东西。
>> And for the person who's still thinking, I mean, what's the point? I can barely pay my bills. What do you want them to know?
>> 对于仍在思考的人，我的意思是，有什么意义？我几乎付不起账单。你想让他们知道什么？
>> The first thing I want you to know is I feel you. I empathize with you. I don't judge you. But the second thing you
>> 我想让你知道的第一件事是我理解你。我同情你。我不评判你。但第二件事你
should know is that it is >> Hey, it's your friend Mel and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast.
应该知道的是，它是 >> 嘿，我是你的朋友Mel，欢迎来到Mel Robbins播客。
Hey, it's Mel. My team was showing me that 57% of you who watch here on YouTube are not subscribed yet. Could you do me a quick favor? Hit subscribe.
嘿，我是Mel。我的团队向我展示，在YouTube上观看的你们中有57%还没有订阅。你能帮我一个忙吗？点击订阅。
It's free and that way you don't miss any of the episodes that I post here on YouTube. It also lets me know that you're enjoying the guests and you love
这是免费的，这样你就不会错过我在YouTube上发布的任何剧集。它也让我知道你在享受嘉宾，你爱
the content that I'm bringing you because I want to make sure you don't miss anything. So, thank you. Thank you.
我带给你的内容，因为我想确保你不会错过任何东西。所以，谢谢。谢谢。
Thank you for hitting subscribe. All right, you ready? I bet you are. So, let's dive in. Morgan Hustle, welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast.
谢谢你点击订阅。好吧，你准备好了吗？我打赌你准备好了。所以，让我们开始吧。Morgan Hustle，欢迎来到Mel Robbins播客。
>> Thanks for having me, Mel. Happy to be here.
>> 谢谢你邀请我，Mel。很高兴来到这里。
>> I am so glad you're here. Thank you for jumping on a plane. I am a huge fan. I got to give a shout out to my husband,
>> 我很高兴你在这里。谢谢你跳上飞机。我是你的超级粉丝。我必须向我的丈夫致敬，
Christopher Robbins, because he was the one who first introduced me to your work, The Psychology of Money, Changed My Life. I am so excited for your new
Christopher Robbins，因为他是第一个向我介绍你作品的人，《金钱心理学》，改变了我的生活。我对你的新
blockbuster, The Art of Spending Money.
大片《花钱的艺术》非常兴奋。
And we're going to get into all the takeaways from your mega bestsellers, but I wanted to start by asking you, Morgan, if you could speak directly to
我们要深入了解你超级畅销书的所有要点，但我想先问你，Morgan，如果你能直接对
the person who is here spending time together with us right now and share with them what could be different about their life or the life of somebody that
现在在这里和我们一起度过时间的人说话，与他们分享他们的生活或他们关心的人的生活可能会有什么不同，他们与那个人分享这一集，如果他们把你即将与我们分享和今天教我们的所有东西都放在心上，并应用到他们的
they care about that they share this episode with if they take everything to heart that you're about to share with us and teach us today and apply it to their
生活中。我认为这将是，你感到富有、感到富裕、财务独立的能力完全在你的控制之中。它不
life. I think it would be that your ability to feel wealthy, to feel rich, to be financially independent is absolutely in your control. It doesn't
管你是谁，你来自哪里，你赚多少钱，你的工作是什么，你都能做到。我认为我们几代人都告诉自己，为了
matter who you are, where you're from, how much money you make, what your job is, you can do it. And we I think we've told ourselves for generations that in
变得富有，你必须拥有正确的教育背景。你必须拥有正确的职业。你必须来自正确的家庭。我
order to become rich, you have to have the right educational background. You have to have the right career. You have to come from the right family. And I
不认为这是真的。这不是关于你有多聪明。这是关于你如何思考金钱。这是关于你如何行为。行为在
don't think it's it's true. It's not about how smart you are. It's about how you think about money. It's about how you behave. and behavior is in
>> 我不知道为什么我相信你，但我相信。就像我真的，无论你负债多少，无论你多大，你都能学习。
>> I don't know why I believe you, but I do. Like I literally no matter how in debt you are, no matter how old you are, you can learn. And
这是我将要谈论的大教训之一，我从你的作品中提炼出来的，它改变了我的生活和我的关系
that's kind of one of the big lessons I'm going to talk about that I've distilled from your work that has changed my life and my relationship with
与金钱，以及我思考金钱的方式，我储蓄它的方式，我花费它的方式。
money and the way I think about money, the way I save it, the way I spend it.
起点完全无关紧要。我从你那里学到的第一课是，你可以在金钱方面变得好。
It doesn't matter the starting point at all. Lesson number one that I've learned from you is you can get good with money.
>> 我一次又一次地看到它。有很多例子。让我给你这个例子。一个普通人没有良好的教育。
>> I've seen it time and time again. And there are so many examples of it. Let me give you this example here. An ordinary person doesn't have a good education.
也许他们甚至没有高中毕业，比如说，但他们有良好的财务行为。他们可以长期思考。他们可以控制他们的期望。他们有耐心。他们有
Maybe they didn't even graduate high school, let's say, but they have good financial behavior. They can think long term. They can keep their expectations in check. They're patient. They have
那些行为品质。那个人可以做得很好。但去哈佛并获得MBA并在华尔街工作的人拥有最好的
those behavioral qualities. That person can do very well. But the person who went to Harvard and got an MBA and went to work on Wall Street has the best
教育、最好的关系、最好的经验，那个人很容易破产。他们确实，这并不罕见，这在
education, the best connections, the best experience, that person can easily go broke. and they do not uncommon for that to happen and that is not true in
其他领域是不真实的。不可能想到一个没有上高中、没有上大学的普通人，比哈佛训练的医生更好地进行心脏手术
other fields. It is impossible to think of an ordinary person who didn't go to high school, didn't go to college performing open heart surgery better
。那是不可能的。那永远不会发生。但这确实发生在金钱上，因为它不是关于你知道什么。你不需要
than a Harvard trained doctor. That's impossible. That will never happen. But it does happen with money because it's not about what you know. You don't need
知道秘密公式。你不需要有秘密关系。如果你只是让你的行为正确，你的思维正确，你就能做好。
to know the secret formulas. You don't need to have secret connections. If you just get your behavior right and your thinking right, you can do well.
耐心，控制你的期望，不把自己与他人比较，用金钱作为工具来生活得更好，而不是作为标尺来
patience, keeping your expectations in check, not comparing yourself to other people, using money as a tool to live a better life instead of a yard stick to
通过它来衡量自己与他人。这是非常简单的东西，它都在你的头脑中，我认为它是人们需要知道如何在金钱方面做好的99%
measure yourself against others by it's very simple stuff and it's all in your head and it's I think it's it's 99% of what people need to know to do well with
在你的控制之中。嗯，我认为我犯的一个错误，很长一段时间，特别是我遇到你的作品之前，是我相信
money is in your control. Well, I think one of the mistakes that I made for a very long time, particularly before I bumped into your work, is I believed
有一些秘密公式，有一些富人的私人俱乐部，这是关于你认识谁，你去了哪所学校。我
that there was some secret formula, that there was some private club for rich people, that it was about who you know, where you went to school. And what I
喜欢你的作品的是，你基本上说，“不，不，不，不。你专注于错误的东西。有我们可以学习的实际行为，
love about your work is that you basically say, "No, no, no, no. You're focusing on the wrong stuff. There are actual behaviors that we can learn that
将帮助你在金钱方面变得好。” >> 正是。它们也不是那么困难。它们在你的控制之中。不是说它们容易，但
will help you get good with money." >> Exactly. And they're not that difficult either. They're in your control. It's not to say that they're easy, but
它们很简单。所以只是几个行为。如果你有能力专注于内部，专注于你自己的目标，而不是不断比较
they're simple. And so just just a couple of the behaviors. If you have an ability to focus internally on your own goals rather than constantly comparing
自己与他人，如果你能储蓄一点你的钱，生活甚至稍微低于你的能力，投资那笔钱并保持耐心。只是那些事情，
yourself against others, if you can save a little bit of your money, live even slightly below your means, invest that money and be patient. Just those things,
只是那些非常，这是我刚给你的幼儿园主题清单。
just those very that's a kindergarten list of topics that I just gave you.
那不是一堆希腊公式。
That's not a bunch of Greek formulas.
那不是一堆华尔街胡言乱语。那不是一堆首字母缩略词。
It's not a bunch of Wall Street gibberish. It's not a bunch of acronyms.
这些是非常简单的东西，就是这样。这部分也是重新定义我所说的财务成功是什么意思。
These are very simple things and that's it. Part of this too is redefining what what I mean by financially successful.
我不是在谈论私人岛屿和私人飞机。但对大多数人来说，如果你说，“你最终的财务目标是什么？”他们实际想要的
I'm not talking private islands and private jets. But for most people, what they actually want if you said, "What is your ultimate financial goal?" They
是，他们会说，“我想为自己和家人拥有稳定的住房。我想有一点缓冲，如果我被解雇或
would say, "I want to have a stable housing for myself and my family. I want to have a little bit of cushion to fall back onto if I were to get laid off or
有医疗紧急情况，我可以依靠。我想有一天能够有尊严地退休。我想能够和我的孩子们共度时光。这些是非常好的
have a medical emergency. I want to be able to have a dignified retirement someday. I want to be able to spend time with my kids. Those are very good
财务目标。我认为，那种水平的财富和成功，在每个人的控制之内。
financial goals. And that level of wealth and success, I think, is in within everybody's control.
>> 嗯，你说你想教我们如何使用金钱作为工具。
>> Well, you said you wanted to teach us how to use money as a tool.
>> 来生活得更好，而不是用它作为标尺 >> 通过它来衡量自己与他人。
>> To live a better life versus using it as a yard stick >> to measure yourself against others by.
>> 正确。这是你要教我们如何做的核心事情之一，以及为什么这在今天如此重要。
>> Correct. And that's one of the core things you're going to teach us how to do and why this is so important today.
>> 当然。说起来容易做起来难。对每个人来说，把自己与他人比较是如此自然。对我来说，通过不说
>> Of course. And it's easier said than done. It is so natural for everybody to compare yourself against others. For me to measure my level of success by not
我拥有什么，而是通过说我相对于那个人拥有什么来衡量我的成功水平。不是不是不是我的
saying what do I have but but by saying what do I have relative to that guy. Not how not how not how comfortable is my
房子有多舒适，而是通过说我的房子相对于那边的那个人、我的邻居、我的同事、我的兄弟姐妹有多大。
house but by saying how big is my house relative to that person over there to my neighbor to my co-orker to my siblings.
使今天比以往任何时候都更困难的问题之一是，过去对我父母那一代、我祖父母那一代来说，
And one of the problems that makes it more difficult today than it's ever been is that it used to be for my parents' generation, my grandparents generation,
当他们把自己与他人比较时，这是相对于他们的邻居或他们的同事，这是一个相当小的人群。也许几个
when they compared themselves to other people, it was relative to their neighbors or their co-workers, it was a pretty small group of people. Maybe a
你在电视上看到或在广播中听到的人。但现在今天，只是每个人，包括我自己，他们的比较群体是
couple people who you saw on TV or heard about on the radio. But now today, just everybody, including myself, their comparison group is the most
Instagram或Tik Tok上最复杂的算法。所以无论你做得有多好，无论你的房子有多好，无论你赚多少钱
sophisticated algorithm on Instagram or Tik Tok. And so no matter how well you're doing, no matter how great your house is, no matter how much money
，你像其他人一样每天打开Instagram 100次，你打开它，那里有某个人看起来更好、更快乐、更
you're making, you turn on Instagram a 100 times a day like everybody else, you open it up and there is somebody out there who looks better, happier, more
成功、比你更美丽。
successful, more beautiful than you are.
所以这个主题，我认为，一直是真实的。它一直很重要。
And so this topic, I think, has always been true. It's always been important.
它今天比以往任何时候都更重要。控制你的期望的想法，因为今天比以往任何时候都更容易让
It is more important today than it's ever been. the idea of keeping your expectations in check because it's easier today than it's ever been to let
你的期望只是失控地螺旋上升。我在我自己的孩子身上看到这个。我九岁的儿子，他的，当我长大时，普通人开旧的
your expectations just spiral out of control. I see this with my own kids. My nine-year-old son, his when I was growing up, normal people drove old
皮卡车，富人开新的皮卡车。那就像我头脑中的定义。就像如果你有一辆新皮卡车，就像，哦，
pickup trucks and rich people drove new pickup trucks. That was that was like the definition in my head. Like if you had a new pickup truck, like, oh,
有一个富人。我九岁的儿子，他对富有的定义就像私人飞机和私人岛屿，因为他看Mr. Beast，就像，哦，
there's a rich person. My son who's nine, his definition of rich is like a private jet in a private island because he watches Mr. Beast and it's like, oh,
坐在圈子里，你会赢一百万美元那种。这是一个完全不同的期望水平，甚至比我20或30年前有的还要高。所以
sit in the circle and you'll win a million bucks kind of. It's a completely different level of expectations than even I had 20 or 30 years ago. And so
它是 >> 你将遇到的最困难的事情是，即使你是地球上最有说服力的金融专家之一，你的孩子也不会听你的，
it's >> and the hardest thing you're gonna have is that even though you're one of the most compelling financial experts on the planet, your kids won't listen to you,
>> 不，当然不会。
>> No, of course not.
>> 当然不会。不。我认为这是一个非常重要的起点，因为你已经说了这么多要点，其中一个是发展一套技能
>> Of course not. No. I think that's really important place to start because you have already dropped so many takeaways and one of them was developing a skill set of
向内看，寻找什么重要，而不是向外看Mr. Beast或社交算法上的什么，或你的邻居开什么车作为那个标尺。但你确实
looking inside yourself for what matters rather than looking outside yourself at Mr. Beast or what's on the social algorithm or what your neighbor is driving for that yard stick. But you did
提到了你落后的感觉。
mention this sense that you're falling behind.
>> 是的。今天特别是很多人感到他们落后了。我的意思是，我有一个26岁和一个24岁的孩子，他们
>> Yeah. And so many people today in particular are feeling like they're falling behind. I mean, I have we have a 26-year-old and a 24 year old and they
已经感到，好吧，我赚的钱不够，我怎么才能买房子，我怎么才能支付生活？如果听的人
are already feeling as though, okay, I'm not making enough money and how am I ever going to buy a house and how am I going to pay for a life? If the person
有那种他们落后的感觉，特别是如果你年纪较大，你说太晚了，就像我已经搞砸了，Morgan。什么
listening has that sense that they're falling behind, particularly if you're older and you say it's too late, like I've already blown it, Morgan. What do
你想让他们现在听到？我认为有几件事。一个是同理心，因为生活中有一些领域，特别是很多人在他们的
you want them to hear right now? I think there's a couple things. One is empathy because there are areas in life where particularly a lot of people in their
20多岁、30多岁和40多岁时，相对于前几代人落后了，特别是像房屋所有权这样的事情，在前几代人中比现在更容易实现
20s, 30s, and 40s are falling behind relative to previous generations, particularly something like home ownership where it was more attainable in previous generations than it is has
，特别是在过去几年。所以同理心，这不是我说，“哦，你应该只是感觉更好。你应该只是更感激
been particularly in the last couple of years. So empathy, this is not me saying, "Oh, you should just feel better. You should just be more grateful
你拥有的。你你实际上做得很好。”这里必须有一些同理心。还有对于那些认为他们能够
for what you have. You you actually are doing fine." There is some empathy that has to be involved here. And also for people that thought they were going to
在某个年龄退休，然后生活成本上涨了这么多，或者医疗账单在某个
be able to retire at a certain age and then the cost of living has gone up so much or medical bills are at a certain
状态，你意识到天哪，我没有足够的钱 >> 能够退休，所以基本上重要的是，这些是非常
state that you're realizing oh my god I don't have enough money right >> to be able to retire and so it is important to basically go these are very
真实的感觉，人们现在有的，所以如果我们从同理心开始，我们下一步去哪里，Morgan？嗯，我认为你从同理心开始，因为如果有人
real feelings that people have right now and so if we start with empathy where do we go next Morgan? Well, I think you start with empathy because if somebody
感到他们落后了，那是他们的真相。但我认为，同样重要的是要意识到，所有幸福只是期望和现实之间的差距。
feels like they're falling behind, that's their truth. But I think it's it's important to realize, too, that all happiness is just the gap between expectations and reality.
>> 好吧，再说一遍。所有幸福 >> 所有幸福是期望和现实之间的差距。你有你正在过的生活。你有你
>> All right, say that again. All happiness >> all happiness is the gap between expectations and reality. You have the life you're living. You have the life
期望过的生活。在两者之间是是是你可以找到某种程度的幸福的地方。那个差距越宽，你会感到越痛苦。
you expect to live. In between there is is is where you can find some level of happiness. And the wider that gap is, the more miserable you're going to feel.
>> 好吧。所以，让我们谈谈某个处于这种情况的人，他们认为他们的储蓄会进一步，他们开始恐慌
>> Okay. So, let's talk about somebody who is in a situation where they thought they would be further along with their savings and they're starting to panic
因为他们担心他们的钱会在他们死前用完，或者他们将无法退休。
because they're worried that their money is going to run out before they die or they're not going to be able to retire.
如果那是现实，你现在如何使用那个幸福定义？
How do you use that happiness definition right now if that's the reality?
>> 这对每个人都不真实。这不是黑白分明的，但有很多这些情况，我会说大多数
>> This is not true for everybody. This is not black and white, but there are a lot of these cases, I would say the majority
这些情况，那个人无法储蓄他们想的那么多的原因是，他们多年来可能
of these cases where the reason that person has not been able to save as much as they thought is because their expectations for many years probably
一直失控地螺旋上升，他们花的钱比他们应该花的更多，因为他们试图追逐他们想成为的人
have been spiraling out of control and they were spending more money than they should have been because they were trying to chase who they wanted to be
即使那不一定他们能负担得起的生活方式水平。所以他们租了一个非常漂亮的公寓，因为他们有一个
even if it wasn't necessarily the level of lifestyle that they could afford. And so they were renting an apartment that was very nice because they had an
期望，那是他们应该在的地方，他们把自己与他人比较，即使那有点超出他们的预算。他们
expectation that that's where they should be and they were comparing themselves to other people even if it was kind of out of their budget. They
以某种方式旅行、穿衣和外出就餐，因为那是他们觉得他们应该成为的人，即使他们不一定能负担得起。
were traveling and dressing and eating out in a way because that's who they felt that they should be even if they couldn't necessarily afford it.
>> Morgan，你在这里点名我们。
>> Morgan, you're calling us out here.
>> 我在点名每个人。是的。我也曾经处于这种情况。
>> I'm calling everybody out. Yes. I've I've been in this situation, too.
这没有什么可耻的。这是我认为每个人都会经历的非常常见的事情。我认为我为什么对这个话题感兴趣，我写的每一本书
There's no shame in it. This is a very common thing that I think everyone will experience. And I think a lot of why I got interested in this topic, every book
都从照镜子开始，就像，我什么时候嫉妒过？我的期望什么时候失控了？没有
that I've written started with looking in the mirror and being like, when have I been envious? When have my expectations spiraled out of control? No
人对这是免疫的。所以没有什么可没有什么可耻的。
one is immune to this. So there's nothing to be there's nothing to be ashamed of.
>> 所以有一点，因为你知道，只是完全披露，我带着10,000美元的信用卡债务进入我的婚姻，我丈夫不知道
>> So there's a little bit of cuz cuz you know, just in full disclosure, I entered my marriage with $10,000 of credit card debt that my husband did not know about
然后继续对他隐瞒。
and then proceeded to hide it from him.
但事实是，我只是拿着我的信用卡走进商店，用我没有的钱买了我不需要的东西。
But the truth is, I just walked my credit card into stores and bought stuff I didn't need with money I didn't have.
>> 然后即使我看我丈夫和我在我41岁时发生的事情，他的餐厅正在倒闭
>> And then even if I look at what happened to my husband and I when I was 41 years old and his restaurants were going under
，带着我们的房子和我们整个一生的储蓄，事实是我们确实花了很多我们没有的钱。我们确实积累了那笔债务。我记得
and taking our house and our entire life savings with it, the truth is we did spend a lot of money we didn't have. We did rack up that debt. And I remember
几年后，当我们开始爬出来时，当我能够对自己说，我对这个混乱负责。我可以看到
several years later as we were starting to climb our way out, there was a level of relief when I could say to myself both, I'm responsible for this mess. I can see
几年后，当我们开始爬出来时，当我能够对自己说，我对这个烂摊子负责时，有一种解脱感。我可以看到